Gouky's wheeler buildup thread

[Gouky]

Alright, i plan on documenting my buildup in this thread. here are the decisions so far:

1988 bronco II
1992 mustang 302HO motor
zf-5 trans out of 1994 f-350
t-case undecided yet, either 205 (if it fits) or bw4405 (currently behind zf-5)
fullwidth axles

lots of other decisions to make, but here she is on the day i got her (12th of nov)

[Gouky]

notice the leaking trans fluid.

i followed that lead and found a bunch of other things wrong, so that's when i decided to just go all out since it was going to take less time to fix it right than to patch it.

took the body off to inspect further.

[Gouky]

brake lines were shot on the frame, ... decided to keep tearing down.

[Gouky]

why the hell stop there, finish removing everything so the frame can be properly cleaned.

[Gouky]

which brings us to nov 23rd...

all nastyness has been removed from frame, going to start mocking things up

[Gouky]

i'll be getting axles shortly after thanksgiving along with the transmission

meanwhile, i've got motor mount work to do and a 302 to rebuild.

it appears there is a little frame rot behind the passanger side rear shock mount and a little where the old coil buckets used to be. those areas will get cut out and plated over as one of the first orders of business.

[offroadohio]

Yeah, soon as Matt gets ahold of me i'll have yer axles.

you just love takin shit apart don't ya.

[Gouky]

Originally Posted by Piney

you just love takin shit apart don't ya.

My name is Marc... and I have a problem.

[Gouky]

Alright, i picked up my trans & t-case over the weekend.

the t-case is rather long though, i may swap it for the NP205 i have laying around, it would reclaim me 10" of rear driveshaft length.

rear driveshaft w/stock trans/t-case = 25"
rear driveshaft w/np205 = 35"

so, it's a significant difference.

of course, it also shortens the front shaft by about 6", but it makes both shafts (front and back) about the same length.

heck, i may be able to tweak things a little and just carry one spare shaft for both if i change the front output on the NP205.

[Gouky]

the other news is, the guy i picked the trans from made me a killer deal on some axles he had laying around. under the motto of "go big or go home" i had to pick em up.

Front D60 HP, balljoint with 35spline inners (not sure on the outers, i'll have to disasemble the hub to find out, probably 30spline)

rear 10.25" ford 35spline full float.

both have 3.55 gears for now, that will not change until the rest of the project is done.

[Gouky]

axles are 71" WMS-WMS

using those hummer rims with 1.5" spacers i'll be able to fit them around the front calipers.

stock hummer wheels = 9" wide with 7" backspacing

with spacers, it's equivalent to 5.5" backspacing, 9"wide wheel which is still a very deeply inset wheel.

this brings my outside-outside dimention to 78", or about 80" once you figure in tire bulge and whatnot.

the rear hubs will be flush with the outer rim shell with the spacer and the front hubs will be about 1" out with the spacer. if i convert to drive flanges they would be about flush also.

that's about all i have for now.

[Gouky]

oh yeah, if anybody has ideas on how to suspend axles these i'm all ears!


i'd like to keep it fairly simple for now and complicate things later.

the rear can definately be hung with leaf springs, may not provide the best flex, but it will be good enough for now.

the front on the other hand has the following constraints:

-cannot be leaf sprung (not enough frame length up front).
-needs a panhard bar (not running full hydro steering)

i think this limits me to:
-radius arms on both sides + panhard
-3link + panhard
-4link (not triangulated) + panhard

the linked suspensions have the advantage of allowing more control over driveshaft angles through suspension travel.


any other ideas?

[Tom Campbell]

NO panhard - 4 link (or 3link with upper wishbone) - nitrogen 14" travel shocks - infinately adjustable - i love them. as simple/stable/yet flexible as it gets. i'd also add long travel sway bars (may save you from having to keep plenty of replacement glass around).

[Gouky]

can you point me to a good thread with pics of your setup? or post a few pics in here with explanations?

i'd love to not have a pan-hard bar limiting my travel but i was under the impression that that wasn't a good idea without full hydro steering.

and sway bars will probably be used,but i'm simply not worrying about those for now.

[Jakey]

Thats awesome, you got tranny and axles from that eBay auction where noone bid on the ZF?
One stop killer deal.

[Gouky]

yeah, that's where i got em from. really nice guy. He threw in a few extra things too that may or may not come into this build.

[Gouky]

UPS just dropped by...

these should help the 302 fit a little better. as well as help tire clearance out a little bit. (2")

oh, i got these from Chubby's 4WP. great deal

[Tom Campbell]

a "panhard rod" and type of steering would have nothing to do with each other. it's all in the lengths, axle and chassis mount points, and cross angles. is this a trail rig? if so - why use a steering box? i'd mount the engine as far back as possible - even if you cut the firewall - it's just sheetmetal - keep enough room for yoyur feet. b2's are too front heavy anyway. scrap that too long drivetrain. get a c4 pull out put shaft - aneal it, cut (shorter than a 4wd shaft) and respline for a 1350/1354 - re harden; cost less than $250, cut the tail shaft - graft it to an a4ld 4wd tail shaft flange - you end up with a stubby c4 4wd. this is what i'm doing now and will do for all my trannies in the future - 2wd c4's are every where. now, all the welders/machinists could start fabricating welded light weight steel bell housings for small ford v6 (old style v6 or duratecs or 4cylinder duratecs)to c4/5 and sell them for $200 - you guys just need to get off your wallets.all that to get the motor back so you have room for the front links. then it up to the fabricator to get 4 link fronts with at least 30 degree offsets. i am tempted to do this stubby c4 to 200cid inline 6, lima or duratec 4cyl., small v8 or either v6 for $1150.00 + good core. now for a b2 = there is not enough room in the front or rear fender well to mount big tires without using a step stool (keep the center of frame rails no more than 18" at ride ht.). so, you need to cut the front firewall anyway - justifies that arguement. the rear will need tubbed at least 3" in board (or you end up with wms to wms of 80" for axle pivot)- and increase overall rear opening by 6" front to rear and do it all by going back - that relieves rear shaft angles and allows room for a doubler if you'd like. b2s are too short anyway 100"-102" works well. 4 link the rear. keep the outside to outside tire width to less than 82" - retube if needed. why a sterling, they are rock anchors? heck, you could use 8.8's (full floats are over rated) front and rear and fit with e-lockers (those diffs/axles assy. are $50 in about any yard - use what ever c's and knuckles you want - used or new). i love the nitrogen shocks - release all the pressure and set them under it with the truck down as far as you want and then as high as you want - add some angle if needed to increase over all realized travel and weld the mounts. once its DONE play with pressures! brakes - don't over complicate = get some racing calipers $60-$150 for the width of rotor you select - bolt up the rotors - use your plasma cutter to cut out the caliper brackets and weld them to the end of your axle housing. who needs an emergency brake - it won't work half the time any way - $30.00 hydralic line lock or 2. since yours is going to be pretty with all that frame cleaning and painting - it would probably make it into a mag. do the first one then offer it as turn-key for $25k - probably get by under modified stock rules. hey do it with a duratec 4cyl. turbo - people like to see the windmill on the sdie of the motor. this all applies to explorers as well. fords are too front heavy never add or move wt. to outside of axle centers - it looks good on the scales but hurts you once angled and off camber. these are all opinions of a veterinarian and do not neccessarily depict the beliefs of the management!!!LOLOLOL

[Taxx]

How complicated do you want to go on this build? The panard bar just keeps the axle in place left and right. There are 3 and 4 link setups out there that didth the panard.

However I really don't think its gonna limit your flex. Look at EB sites and some of the rigs around here with massive amounts of flex running a panard bar.

With that said though, it still may not be the ideal suspension for you on this. Thats up to you. There are hundreds of choices.

It all comes to 2 questions:

How complicated do you want to make it?
How much money do you want to blow?

If it was me I would either do radius arms and panard bar or the wishbone setup tom mentioned. Then the opportunity is endless with springs. Personally I like a variable rate spring, but you may want coil overs too????