New Problems [Archive] - RRORC Forums

Taxx

05-02-2006, 04:09 PM

A little background:

73 Bronco
Block and rotating assembly: 91 mark VII
Intake: Ford Racing Cobra Intake
Stock 90 or 91 mustang 19lbs injectors and MAF
new Dizzy, EVR, EGR, O2...
Used TB from stock stang as well
Used TFI from Crown Vic

Firing order set to HO
Cam = E303
A9L computer

This engine was just built and dropped in. Very little time on it as I haven't gotten it running right yet completely.

This weekend I got the code 67 to dissapear so I could run a KOER test. I ran this test and recieved codes 41 and 91. After some searching and trouble shooting it turns out my injector harness was missing the pin and wire in the white connector for the HEGO Ground.

Last night I made this HEGO ground up and connected it to the battery for the time being (- side)

Fired it up and it was no longer running the same way. Now it runs worse and does not want tos tay running. I have tried the HEGO ground on the battery (-) and the intake and get the same results.

KOEO test: 11 so thats fine
C: 66
KOER: 98 66 so it won't really run this test due to the 98

I have tested and retested my MAF and the wires from the MAf to the computer and all tests out fine. With this HEGO ground again removed it goes back to the 41 and 91 codes and running lean. With it connected it is telling me I have MAF issues but I don't think I do.

I have a whistling sound, thought it was maybe a squeeky belt but it doesn't apear to be. It seems to be coming from the rear and it doesn't stop as soon as the engine stops it dwindles down as does the sound of air entering my air filter. I can't seem to determine if this is a vacuum leak or not. Or could it be the torque converter instead (doesn't seem logical but what do I know).

Could my HEGOs be toasted from running it without the ground at the engine harness and cause this? Could a vacuum leak cause this code? Where on the intake should I look for vacuum leaks? Upper or lower?

What should I test?

Taxx

05-02-2006, 04:10 PM

The wire I grounded at the white connector IS pin 49 at the ECM and disconnected at the ECM its well less than 5 ohms resistance.

One more thing I forgot to mention was how it is running. Without the HEGO ground its lean (I assume) and will idle, though it will idle very rough and its almost drivable.

With the HEGO ground connected getting the codes posted above it does not want to idle. I have to give it some gas to get it to idle. It will rev up and pop at high RPMs and then it will die on decelleration.

in2fords

05-03-2006, 01:36 AM

are you sure the engine is from a 91? if 88 or older it could be a non H.O. Im not sure if that would cause these symptons with the a9l and squirting fuel and plugs firing at the wrong time? I dont remember if you took the engine out or bought it with out car, or rebuilt it, but I suppose if it has the dounle roller timing chain you allready know what it is. Im sleepy and cant think so ignore me:nutz:

Taxx

05-03-2006, 12:03 PM

Engine is from Bobby. Wires are wired for HO as stated on the cam spec sheet.

getting some decent help over here:

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=788769

Some of those guys really know their :v: on these systems. As do a few over here too. I guess this will get worked out eventually. If not keep your eyes on the for sale forums :lmao:

Seriously though, I'll give it some time. Worse case scenerio it ends up on the trailer on it way up to someones house that knows this stuff to get it running in 5 minutes. I'll bring the beer and some steaks to grill. :squanto:

Gouky

05-03-2006, 12:29 PM

do you still have emissions controls on this motor?

Taxx

05-03-2006, 12:35 PM

do you still have emissions controls on this motor?

Emissions? whats that?:lmao:

Actually I have everything hooked up in that ford racing harness cept the Canp and I have a resister in place of that and have never had a code for canp.

Gouky

05-03-2006, 12:42 PM

canp is the canister purge, right?

do you have a pressure guage on the fuel line? is it steady?

do you have an osciloscope (single or dual+)? what about a volt meter?

i've got a few ideas to help you, but it depends what kind of diagnostic equipment you have.

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 12:51 PM

sounds like the egr is a factor with the o2 change, though the o2 i am guessing is reading now?

the hissing sounds like a vac leak or a problem with the pvc, possibly the check valve on the brake booster is bleeding off vacuum when you shut the engine off as well.

if the wiring is fine, and the pins are where they are supposed to be at the computer connector(you know people swap them around dave) then the problem is in the pcm, you have eliminated the wiring. you know how to check the sensors, a giant vac leak should show with the starting fluid.

did you pull the intake and make sure a wire or something inst pinched in there?

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 01:04 PM

disconnect the vac line and plug it for the egr valve.

stART it up and then stroke the key on and off without it stalling, rev it if you have too.

it damn sure sounds like a short in the harness could be a contributing factor, or back feeding to the nds.

i cant do anything on the weekends, i have too many sporting things with the kids. if i get some money out of one of these billings i am thinkin of just commin over. i have to fix my moms new husbands car, it had a wireing fire...and its a saturn, dealer said low to fix is 1500. when that is done i might test drive it to indy:toast:

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 01:05 PM

hey, were the heads magnefluxed?

what did you do with the heads?

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 01:21 PM

do you have a setup for an automatic or manual trans for the o2 sensor harness?

is the nds grounded or has crank power running to it?

if it is grounded, is it only grounded during crank?

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 01:22 PM

do you have another pcm? i can send you one if you need it.

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:01 PM

OK lots of shit here to answer:

Bobby don't go taking a road trip just yet.

The wiring harness is BRAND FAWKIN new. I got it off wilber and I took it down and went through it pin by pin before I put it in. I missed the HEGO ground cause for some reason it was missing on the vic injector harness I pulled and I ignored it for a reason unknown to me. I checked every injector plug before installing too all the way back to the ECM connector.

Fuel Pressure is 40 psi at idle and never drops below around 36, if even that low. No silly scope here but I have a top of the line multimeter to play with. Canp is canister purge.

I watch the EGR and it is not opening. I will disconnect it. I have pulled the upper and checked the wiring and gaskets. I might just look again.

I have never heard my booster bleed off in the past. But I am not saying that its not that. I have never heard a PCV whistle like this too. But tomorrow I am gonna go get more starting fluid and check it all again. If its big this should be telling me something.

What does cycling the key do?

I just had the heads cleaned and a valve job with new springs. Thats it.

I made my own O2 Harness. The NDS is grounded (manual tranny setup), this was the only way I could get rid of the code 67 so I could run the KOER test. It is grounded ALL of the time now. Actually its connected to pin 46 at the self test connecter I believe.

I may have access to another ECM I need to check.

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:04 PM

I actually went out tonight to check the connector at the MAF again. Battery was disconnected for a couple days. Hooked it back up and ran the tests on the MAf as in the probst book. Everything was perfect.

Ran a KOEO test and just got 11s. Fired right up and ran decent suprisingly enough, had a couple in my system so I didn't go for a test drive. But the idle was not the greatest (died when I put it in gear and played in the garage). But ir sounded much better. No whistle. Good vacuum (about 16 at idle and would go up to around 20 when I played with the throttle). So I am gonna take it around the block tomorrow (never ran it long enough to warm up the HEGOs tonight) and see what happens. But trying to run the KOER test with the engine temp at about 120 I still got the 98 and 66 codes.

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 10:12 PM

What does cycling the key do? this lets me know if there is a certain los fault, which can be involved with the nds, depending on pcm type

I just had the heads cleaned and a valve job with new springs. Thats it.

well they would have seen an obvious crack i hope.

The NDS is grounded (manual tranny setup), this was the only way I could get rid of the code 67 so I could run the KOER test. It is grounded ALL of the time now. Actually its connected to pin 46 at the self test connecter I believe.

I may have access to another ECM I need to check.

this confirms you have a manual puter to me, and it is alive to this point.

I made my own O2 Harness.

this may be the entire problem, the man and auto pcm are different here, and the nds in stock form iirc runs through there. you can run the power for the o2 right to ground before the o2 heater, and the obvious ass ****ing it can do puting power to the ground circuit. generally the fuse wire melts.

theres a myriad of other possibilities mechanically, and i have to be in the presence of the engine to know that too.

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 10:17 PM

this may sound irritating, but the gasket for the tb is on right and not leaking for sure? and there was no sign of the egr leaking internally?, maybe a bad intake porosity cavity..? no trail of soot? i would pressure pressure checked it if i had it off. i forgot to mention that earlier.

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:17 PM

theres a myriad of other possibilities mechanically, and i have to be in the presence of the engine to know that too.

Bassically I am FAWKED! :lmao:

Seriously though. I will give you my pinout of my O2 Harness and tell you what wires go where.

Give me a few minutes to write this up. I think it requires a Photo :nuts:

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:36 PM

Picture time:

Here is the HEGO grnd coming from the white plug at the injector harness
http://www.haughs.net/gallery/albums/rebuild/P5030302.sized.jpg

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 10:38 PM

if you have an ho bird harness in there i am gonna give you a wedgie.

make sure, pull the #3&4 inj wires and see if they go to pin 12 and 13 and not39 and 35. and canp goes to31 and not 11.

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:39 PM

keep in mind there are temporary connections while I troubleshoot

This is the wire coming from the BLACK connector (for 02 harness) for NDS Pin 30.

http://www.haughs.net/gallery/albums/rebuild/P5030301.sized.jpg

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 10:40 PM

i ask cause its a crown vic harness, a cv harness will be right, but if it was mistaken to be a cv and is a bird....well....it happens.

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:40 PM

Connector pics. One extra wire here not yet removed from having it configed as an auto tranny :bs:

The clipped wire here is teh wire to the red wire going to the ST plug.

http://www.haughs.net/gallery/albums/rebuild/P5030304.sized.jpg

http://www.haughs.net/gallery/albums/rebuild/P5030308.sized.jpg

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:41 PM

now here is the plugs on the black connector. The ones crossed out in red are NOT hooked up to anything. The others trace back properly to where they are supposed to go.

http://www.haughs.net/gallery/albums/rebuild/P5030308.sized.jpg

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:45 PM

I checked that harness and will check again to make sure I didn't check it to the wrong schematic. But I pulled it myself from a crown vic. I know the difference between a vic and a bird I think....

But I will check those again.

Honestly I think what I am gonna do at this point is check the freaken harness pin by pin (continuity to where its supposed to go and not pressent all other places). Its a big job but rather than chasing ghosts it may be the way to go???

I understand electronics more than engines. So thats something I can rule out rather quickly. But first I will check again for vacuum leaks.

Taxx

05-03-2006, 10:57 PM

well they would have seen an obvious crack i hope.

They claimed everything looked good and checked out fine there too!

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 11:03 PM

so gray and yeller is hot with key power all times and not juicin anything else?

it splits to left and right and only juicin the o2's:toast:

pin 43 only goes to the left o2 which should be gray and black

pin 29 only goes to the right o2 which should be red and black

the actual hego block ground which is black and white comes from pin 49...it dont hook up to nothing but ground.

and then theres the pin 30 fawker. try hooking that up so it grounds only to pin 46 in park and unground in drive and see what it does for off idle...the wires which should be light blue and yeller for the common return...and pin 30 is pink and yeller i think. i will have to look at a harness in the garage.

as a quickie just try ungrounding it before you put it in drive.

just wierd the description of the idle, its not normal for an e. seems like egr and vacuum leakage by the description

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 11:33 PM

i left out the computer groundor power ground.., thats the 40/60, is that what you were grounding to the block....:idiot: i hope not.:broke:

Taxx

05-03-2006, 11:38 PM

Don't worry bout the wire colors. My connector for that harness on the O2 side is pieced together with pigtails and connectors from gouky.

Honestly I am 99% on the O2 harness. Its only a few wires. I will try and unground the tranny connector when I put it in gear and see what happens.

I don't get the codes and the MAF checks fine which is what stears my limited knowledge to a vacuum leak. I'll play with it a bit in the AM and let you know where I get as far as any updates. I don't know where a vacuum leak would be. Its not obvious at this point but if there is one I will find it. Where can the lower intake leak? PCV, injectors, upper to lower, ACT, seal to heads...???

Bobby Walter III

05-03-2006, 11:57 PM

you put it together.

think about it. lower is torqued rigt and you didnt bend the head gasket tabs...maybe there was another flaw. when the lower leaks its a mo fo to find. might not be a leak

you should have took that brand new o2 harness from here. i hope the computer didnt get an ass whoopin.

are your o2's a 4 wire setup? most likely a 3. all mine are.

i am guessing you ran the gtounds together to 40/60 and the power split to them and the signal wires to thier spots, and for sure you didnt hook them up backwards to the plugs.

i have seen, or i bet more computers get fawked up from home made o2 harnesses in these efi ho applications then anything else. its easy to fawk up, batt power to the input with the wrong ground can tear shit up.

do you have the canp solonoid hooked up? its not leaking is it?

Taxx

05-04-2006, 08:55 AM

i left out the computer groundor power ground.., thats the 40/60, is that what you were grounding to the block....:idiot: i hope not.:broke:

No HEGO ground is on the block. Puter ground is straight to the battery I think. Anyway 40/60 is grounded with good readings.

Taxx

05-04-2006, 09:02 AM

Canp is bypased with a resister. I don't even have a canp solenoid.

Ok as for the O2 harness. I have checked it several times and the pin out is RIGHT. I have checked the pin out back to the puter from it too. Providing I have the right diagrams for those things and the computer, its golden. I am sure of it. I can take that harness off and go pin by pin again but I honestly don't think that is it.

I need to eliminate the wiring before I try another computer and fry it too. I am going to check the harness pin by pin later this am. It won't take long to do. And I will then be 100% sure where everything is. Even though I think its right now. But that will eliminate the wiring. Anything I should keep an eye out for as I do this?

And your right, the lower end was torqued and everything is within spec. If there is a problem with the crank its the tranny hooked to it. Don't know if I screwed up rebuilding that if it would effect how the engine runs. But I am sure there is no vacuum leak down there.

So for today I will recheck every pin of that harness, double check for vacuum leaks and report back.

Taxx

05-04-2006, 08:41 PM

UPDATE!

Had some real life stuff to do today, however I spent some time with the lemon. I picked up an A9P computer from a yard today AND it looks much better than my old one. But looks aside the 91 stang had just gotten there and they fired it up and did doughnuts in the lot and I listened to this one pur. So I know it works and I am better off with the A9P anyways. I'll probably hang onto the A9L as an emergency computer for myself or someone else.

Leaving everything alone (HEGO still grounded) and I just switched the NDS since the auto requires a diff signal it went back to the lean running setup and gave me 41 and 91 on the KOER test :nutz: So I think something is fawked up there. The whistle was there and strong and I was able to get a slight change with starting fluid towards the back of the intake. This evening I pulled the intake, put new gaskets, checked the injectors and reseated the lower. I then began going pin by pin on the harness as I hook it all back up. I will know where every pin goes and what the resistance is before this is over. I am about halfway there so we should get a chance to fire it tomorrow.

The whistle is worse running lean so its got to be a vacuum leak. Though its hard to narrow down and it sounds worse from underneath and when its hot.

I'll post an update tomorrow. Atleast I will learn something this time and I will have documented every connection of that damn harness.

Mustang

05-04-2006, 10:32 PM

Sounds dumb but the PCV is hooked up to the PITA port in the lower intake right?

Taxx

05-04-2006, 10:35 PM

Sounds dumb but the PCV is hooked up to the PITA port in the lower intake right?

Pain in the ass port?

You lost me here. Maybe this isn't so dumb. PCV is hooked up to a vaccum line. Whats the PITA port? The PCV is in the big hole in the back of the lower intake.

Bobby Walter III

05-04-2006, 10:56 PM

Taxx

05-04-2006, 11:01 PM

with a regular ho intake and in a car its a pain in the ass to get to taxx.

is the grommet that the pvc goes into the correct size? is that hose cracked? are the egr plugs still in the back of the heads? just plug the pvc and see what happens. then there are the actual vacuum fittings on the intake, while it was apart did you chack all of the fittings and shit, there should be a few different lil tubes.

Grommet is new and the right size. Fits in there pretty well. New hoses all the way around. I assume the egr plugs are back there. I still have the upper off as I am testing the injector wires and plugs and crap too. I will double check those fittings but those are all in with teflon tape and its a new intake so i just put them in. But will check! I will update tomorrow night after I get it back together and have checked all the pins.

I just got to the point I was scratching my head and making myself more confused I thought it would be a good idea to start from square one and make some documentation for future reference while I do so. Its work but its worth it for me I think.:dunno:

Bobby Walter III

05-04-2006, 11:07 PM

not if your chasing a crack in a bad casting.

pressure up on the egr feed and make sure it aint leaking internally either.

and make sure the vacuum line going to the modulator on the trans is happy and leak free.

Mustang

05-04-2006, 11:26 PM

We were getting the 41-91 codes on Razors Ranger at first as well,the orange wire coming from the ECM had to be grounded to the engine(O2 sensor ground)The O2 sensors should have 12V on the heater+ lead,ground on the ground lead and the sensor wire should have some voltage while running.Make sure left is actually left and right is right on the sensor wire.If the orange wire isn't grounded to the block you are going to have problems.Does the motor backfire at all if you suddenly floor it in neutral?

Bobby Walter III

05-04-2006, 11:38 PM

yup
We were getting the 41-91 codes on Razors Ranger at first as well,the orange wire coming from the ECM had to be grounded to the engine(O2 sensor ground)The O2 sensors should have 12V on the heater+ lead,ground on the ground lead and the sensor wire should have some voltage while running.Make sure left is actually left and right is right on the sensor wire.If the orange wire isn't grounded to the block you are going to have problems.Does the motor backfire at all if you suddenly floor it in neutral?

No HEGO ground is on the block. Puter ground is straight to the battery I think. Anyway 40/60 is grounded with good readings.

Mustang

05-04-2006, 11:38 PM

Where did the cam come from?You are absolutely certain it is an E-303?It shouldn't idle that bad,The first problem we had was mistakenly thinking the cam we had was a HO roller,it came from a lincoln but not the MarkVII we were told.It was a non-HO roller....and we had the firing order off 180deg.It would run and move but would backfire at anything over 1/4 throttle or if "goosed" while in gear.This gave us the issues with O2 not switching(injectors firing at wrong valve event making things very rich)It in fact ran very well at a high idle and sounded pretty mean so we were at a loss to the problems occuring.

Bobby Walter III

05-04-2006, 11:41 PM

Taxx

05-05-2006, 10:57 AM

Cam is an E303. Its brand new I have the spec sheet for it and I pulled it out of the box myself. The spec sheet has the HO firing order printed on it. I am 100% possitive on the cam.

Like I said I am going wire by wire on this slut and I will take these considerations in mind.

I tried 180 out and I tried regular firing order. Both made it worse. What is the orange wire you speak of? Pin number? :dunno:

The heads were supposed to have been tested. When you asked I thought those big words meant something else. But I asked for it to all be tested before the machine work was done.

I'll try the non HO firing order for shits and grins if this doesn't all work out. At WOT it sounds mean and it will spit and backfire slightly once in a while at that.

I will tripple check my timning, my firing order, my wiring, my vaccum connections (yes I tested the one to the tranny) and I will make sure the dizzy is dropped in the right place.

in2fords

05-05-2006, 03:15 PM

my buddy had a crappy running 351, turns out he thought it was like a chevy, odd cylinders on one side and evens on the other, I redid it and he was fine. Im sure you allready know which cylinder is which but am grasping at straws.

Taxx

05-05-2006, 08:59 PM

Someone has got to be fist fawkin me! I am sooooooo fawking pissed right now. Its no ones fault but mine. I went by this pin out:

http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/harness03.gif

Turns out that picture for the black plug is FAWKING WRONG for my application. The L and R HEGO plugs are reversed as is the PWR and GRND shit. I tested that harness according to that by its self. Just (finally) tested it on the truck to the ECM plug and its all backwards. :knob:

Bobby Walter III

05-05-2006, 11:40 PM

:idiot:

i aint gonna say it, but i do want to know how its running.

Taxx

05-05-2006, 11:45 PM

learn something new everyday. A couple more pins to check and I am gonna put the intake back on in the am and fire it up. Will update then. Pisses me off. I shoulda checked it to the EEC. The O2 harness was right according to that pin out. But thats wrong for my setup for some reason.:nuts:

Good side is I know this system pretty well now ;)

Bobby Walter III

05-05-2006, 11:55 PM

how many times did you confirm left and right were right in just this thread.

ass hat.

get it runnin now. i want to see whats up in the am before the soccer game.

i am leaving 9 am my time.

prick.

:hehe: i cant take your word for shit anymore....:hehe:

prick.

Bobby Walter III

05-05-2006, 11:57 PM

you fat bastard.

fat bastard.:hehe:

i hope she runs like the stallion she is for ya.:cool:

your still a prick though.:fin:

Taxx

05-06-2006, 12:47 AM

I'll always be a prick. But she seems to be running MUCH better now. I will play with it a little more in the AM. I need to warm it up and see what she does running around the block. But if I ever want to get any again I can't do it now. She probably woke up when I just fired it and got pissed. I'll update after I warm it up and take it for a spin in the am.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Welp scratch that. It still runs for crap. Same codes. KOER I got 41 and 91. This is with a known working computer. Atleast it was when I picked it up thursday. Then KOEO I pull 18, 66, 96 from continuous memory. Not sure why this crap is getting stuck unless its cause its dieing.

I don't get it. Ran GREAT this am when I first fired it up. Once it warmed up my whistle is back (like a squeel) and it runs for crap. I don't get the whistle. Sounds worse from in the drivers wheel well or underneath the truck??? Unless its the oil pump in the tranny or something. But besides that I can't figure this thing out.

I made a vacuum leak to see if it would run worse and it did. So I don't think I have a leak. I have checked the harness now pin by pin to see if it is right and it is (now). I will try those other maf tests soon. I am just LOST, in waaay over my head.

One last thing I will tell you. I do have an exhaust leak right before the pass side HEGO. I have two piece headers and that is where they slide together. So two of the cylendars have a little leak there but I still have a great flow past the HEGO.

I am at my wits end here. I think I need to try and find a mustang guy around these parts to take a gander at it. I should be able to find someone I would think.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:16 AM

One more thing. My tach is hooked through an MSD 6A. Its fine up to 3500 RPM then after that it starts flipping out and then the engine sputters. So I bypassed the MSD and let the computer controll the spark and it seems fine till around the same then a little more and it will actually backfire a bit at the higher RPM.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:20 AM

I have posted a pathetic plea for help in the Indy section on the stang forums so we will see if I get any bites.

At this point I have no idea whats left to test and troubleshoot. Seems fine driving it down the road in first gear. plenty of power.

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 04:40 PM

i didnt get to look till now.

madi bout rolled my truck after soccer and she buried it in the mud hole, so i had to take over, busted the radius arm in a new place and ended up blowing the drive shaft u joint apart up at the t case, and sounds like i busted a planet in the case or a planet bearing is going.

i really want to look at it.

is that with the auto computer?

try cycling the key now and see what happens.

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 04:41 PM

if it runs ok after cycling it then hook the crank power to pin 30 and your done.

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 04:49 PM

another thing i automatically assume is that you checked the power to the injectors with it running an a few different points.

the hissy whistle needs to be identified.

remember crank power to pin 30 with an auto pcm in most cases.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 05:31 PM

Yeah I have crank to 30 right now with the auto puter. Gonna go check the key cycle thing in a bit.

Man I can't for the life of me figure out the hissy whistle. Its driving me nuts. I am sure it will all work out with time. But it is frustrating. The other thing I was thinking is the placement of the MAF. I am also pushing 15-16 volts at run so I need to change out my regulator (this thing eats them up for some reason). But I need to put that elbow on it and see what happens. funny it runs fun when I first fire it and its cool.

Well off I go to check this stuff.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 05:34 PM

another thing i automatically assume is that you checked the power to the injectors with it running an a few different points.

Yes. And I have run the cylendar balance test and that came back fine. But since we see how my testing goes I will cehck the injectors again!

Wilber

05-06-2006, 06:13 PM

runs fine when its cool...

sound like something when your switching to closed loop

Taxx

05-06-2006, 06:19 PM

i
madi bout rolled my truck after soccer and she buried it in the mud hole, so i had to take over, busted the radius arm in a new place and ended up blowing the drive shaft u joint apart up at the t case, and sounds like i busted a planet in the case or a planet bearing is going.

Damn kids! Sounds like fun though. Nice of you to let her beat on your :v:!

Taxx

05-06-2006, 06:20 PM

runs fine when its cool...

sound like something when your switching to closed loop

Well it did this am now its not. Gimme a few minutes I am putting together some info on what I just tested. Its all kinds of fawked up. Just like the roof to my house. Need a roofing job bobby?:lmao:

Taxx

05-06-2006, 07:07 PM

Ok here is a video of how its running: (about 6.7 meg)

http://www.rrorc.com/video/eb.wmv

The first shot is of the engine compartment. The filter is a temp placement (trying diff tubes). The first view of the DMM is showing the voltage on pin 50 (maf) as I run it. (hard to see the decimal but its 1.whatever or 2.whatever)

The gauges on the dash are laid out as follows:

oil PSI Water Temp

Voltage

The gauge on the floor I hooked up to watch the mixture.

The shot of the volt meter laying on the hood is the voltage with the truck running. 14.5 or so, seems normal to me.

When I show the shot of the mixture on the floor towards the end you hear some poping. Hard to make out on video but thats the engine backfiring at around 3500 rpm.

Wilber

05-06-2006, 07:11 PM

not found dumbass

Les M

05-06-2006, 07:33 PM

I've been reading this all along and have been busy in the fields.I have no idea what is wrong with the EFI set up .Here are a couple of Jegs part # that might help 510-0-90670 and 925-8011 have the parts here for cheep if your interested.:idiot: :lmao:

Taxx

05-06-2006, 08:07 PM

Thanks Les. I don;t even have to click on those parts to know what they are and I can't tell you how close I have been!:lmao:

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 10:00 PM

i would agree but i think it would still run the same as i cant see it as a efi issue purely, just something the efi can find and is sensitive too in closed that a carb would hide, and just have idle issues..you said you got the sensor pack, are you using the tib and tab slos from that? are they exposed or plugged?

if its over ampin and over volting....well, thats a whole different set of problems. lovely. possibly burned the 02 heaters out if it was high enough.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 10:06 PM

is 14.5 over volting? Every newer vehicle I have ever had has put out 14 volts give or take.

The air managers, is that what you are talking about? They are connected and they are exposed. But they are just solenoids controlled to open and close, not sensors per se right?

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 10:15 PM

yes, and the vac leak they create is minor and fakes out the pcm.

14.5 is fine....i thought i seen 17 or something.

clean out your pm box.

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 10:16 PM

oh yeah, i cant watch any windows media player shit...got bugged out and shit dont work.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 10:19 PM

yes, and the vac leak they create is minor and fakes out the pcm.

14.5 is fine....i thought i seen 17 or something.

clean out your pm box.

No the fluke was connected to the solenoid where thee ECM wires are connected and the battery is connected. The gauge on the dash is straigh to the battery also and not near as accurate. At 12v is pretty accurate when I am on it and step it up to 14.5 v it reads like 16. Thats why I hooked the fluke up to double check my voltages.

As for those air managers they are hooked up to the wires. They are NOT hooked up to the manifold, no vacuum lines going to them. I just plugged them in so the ECM wouldn't throw a code if it did not see them.

and I cleaned the PM box.

I love being in over my limited brain resources.:lmao:

gremlinstien

05-06-2006, 10:28 PM

I love being in over my limited brain resources.:lmao:

should have stuck with making videos eh? :dunno:

Taxx

05-06-2006, 10:32 PM

should have stuck with making videos eh? :dunno:

Yeah guess I should just stick to being a computer geek.

Maybe I need to read the source code for this damn ECM and I would understand it more...:dunno:

Les M

05-06-2006, 11:16 PM

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 11:22 PM

TIB & TAB or whatever won't throw a running code nor will the CNAP .TIB & TAB are no longer in my harness KOEO code thats it.Take out that resister and let it code that.Oh and by the way I just figured it out for ya it's a CV injecter harness isn't it?Your pin outs for your injectors is wrong a not HO?Right you got the harness off a CV Think about it injecters are firing on a regular 5.0 order and I think you just need to swap the middle 4 wires but not sure without the book in front of me.

no. there are ground differences relating to o2, and some vic have the ac clutch wire in them too, but thats usually not in anything on the pcm for the ho.

the ho pcm fires the pins at the 60 different les.

now the bird ho harness, that can be an assbiter.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:22 PM

I have this nice piece of paper out in the garage labeling the pin out. lemme go get that....

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 11:24 PM

hell, there might not be anything wrong with it...and its just tranny bind:fin:

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:30 PM

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:30 PM

hell, there might not be anything wrong with it...and its just tranny bind:fin:

That would be nice. But why the backfire, why the lean mixture?

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:34 PM

I just compared the HO(92-93) and non HO(89-91) diagrams in the probst book to each other and see no difference. These are the diagrams I used when checking the pins last night.

Bobby Walter III

05-06-2006, 11:36 PM

Les M

05-06-2006, 11:42 PM

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:42 PM

i dont know if it is lean, or rich... and i dont know if it has a push start or ccd module on it. i cant hold the plugs in my hand from here or investigat the fuel filter.

or if the o2's were fried out. or or or or or.

or if its got ....well seems the cylinder balance test would have pointed to the other issues.

LOL. O2s are sense replaced since the wiring was fixed last night.

OR or or..... fixing cars on the internet works real well doesn't it :lmao: Really I appriciate all the tips of things to look for. I appriciate them. But its hard for me to relay noises and smells and stupid :v:.

I guess the leak in my pass side header could cause some issues. for that O2. But couldn't see it affecting the O2 on the drivers side. I'll make it a priority to patch this leak ASAP.

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:44 PM

Taxx

05-06-2006, 11:48 PM

And actually my probst book is 88 - 93 and it shows the same pin numbers for an 88 vic as it does for a 93 stang. And honestly my harness could have come off an 88 or 89 vic? I have no idea. It was a big boxy looking POS.

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 12:16 AM

But the injecters fire in a different order also and I was told by Bobby if I wanted to go HO I had to swap the pin out in the injecter side of it ,it made no since at the time but check probst for both pinout orders on the HO and non HO orders it.They are different and if you have the CV injecter harness I would look at both very close.It the simple things that will get ya.

some of the 10 pins have to be changed, you check the injector to the computer pin from the injector to the computer pin, if it is what it is, your good if it is not then you have to change the actual 10 pin...thats the difference in the birds too. it is different on some. you always verify by checking from the actual injector, to the actual pin on the pcm with the harness hooked together, its fast and less confusing at 2 am.

tax checked and said its good. i see the pop with carbs all the time.

that is whats got me worried. may have to pull the timing cover off, or the push rods are too long or something stupid like that.

and i know you know what i mean les:cool:

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 12:17 AM

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 12:18 AM

I guess the leak in my pass side header could cause some issues. for that O2. But couldn't see it affecting the O2 on the drivers side. I'll make it a priority to patch this leak ASAP.

no not any issue that would code.

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 12:20 AM

I know what your saying Les. Thats where I am lost. Makes complete sense to me. But what I posted above is my injector harness pinout back to the ECM and thats what I am reading in Probst for HO??

I will do some more reading here.

are you saying you did not pull inj 3 and 4 and cont test em to pin 12 and 13

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 12:23 AM

if you have an ho bird harness in there i am gonna give you a wedgie.

make sure, pull the #3&4 inj wires and see if they go to pin 12 and 13 and not39 and 35. and canp goes to31 and not 11.

you did that right?:dunno:

Taxx

05-07-2006, 10:15 AM

Well here you went and got my hopes up Les. But here is my pinout:

Injector Pin
1 58
2 59
3 12
4 13
5 14
6 15
7 42
8 52

according to mustang HO in the probst manual this is correct too. this I did check just last night.

This is from me testing them. Not just from copying the pinout from a book. I will test it again today to be sure, but thats what I came up with for continuity.

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 02:07 PM

well then i think its a mechanical problem. whether its in fuel delivery or valve event timing or lower intake leak or some thing other. bad cap, fawked tfi....... little shit.

if it is what i think it is then a carb wont do shit for the pop.

Taxx

05-07-2006, 05:53 PM

What do you think it is? You talking like this POS needs to be pulled again?:dunno:

Bobby Walter III

05-07-2006, 10:11 PM

not pulled. just indexed.

Taxx

05-07-2006, 11:11 PM

Well OK then.

Redriverranger

05-08-2006, 09:55 PM

If it runs good when cold, and get's shitty after it warms up, sounds like an oxygen sensor issue to me. Have you measured the voltage from the o2 sensors back to the computer, to see if they are telling it rich or lean? .5 volts? or what? Is reference voltage to the TPS correct? (value is in Probst book). Is engine thermistor value approximately correct for engine temperature? Is BAP frequency correct?

Taxx

05-08-2006, 10:00 PM

I was wrong. It runs shitty all the time. HEGOs are telling me and the computer lean.

TPS checks out fine. Need to look at the fuel pump situation. Like was brought up the low pressure pump was an impulse buy at 10pm cause I wanted to hear it run and its probably restricting the flow of fuel more than its helping.

Bobby Walter III

05-08-2006, 10:10 PM

you dont need a low pressure pump. just a mustang pump.

what is engine vacuum at idle before it warms up?

Redriverranger

05-08-2006, 10:13 PM

I doubt the low psi pump is the problem, but the only way to tell is to check the fuel pressure. I just have a small battery powered compressor that I plug onto the schrader on the fuel rail and use the guage on it, but you can use a tire guage or whatever, just have a towel under it to soak up excess sprayed fuel when you shove it on there. I would say anywhere from 38-45 psi is ok. If the pressure is there at idle and when you rev it, look elsewhere.

Les M

05-08-2006, 10:15 PM

You haven't checked fuel PSI yet?Also double check your plug gaps,never know.I would check every thing out before pulling.Even a compression check while ya got the plugs out.Did you plug off the air injection ports on the back of the heads or was that taken care of?I had a bit of a time with mine at first also,but now its jump in hit the key and your off.

Fuel pressure guages are not that pricy and are handy later for other cars.

Bobby Walter III

05-08-2006, 11:05 PM

he did all that.

and has a gauge.

volume testing, and plug reading need to be done..

it runs the same with no egr hooked up(unless it leaks when warm)from what was reported

possibly bad torque on heads...hell anything.

it reads lean on the o2 so its richening the mixture. need to figure that out. quite a few potentials to cause that.

would suck if it has 30# injectors or something in it. if the heaters are workin in the 02's which he checked, its troubling to still see a lean code. unless the egr position sensor is bleeding a false signal or something. i think he bought new o2's again...(pain)

seems more mechanical then anything else to me.

mechanical can be pump voume and bleedoff, inj size, leaking head gasket...yada yada yada.....yo ada

in2fords

05-08-2006, 11:12 PM

dont they make test sensors that dont read but just give a set signal? then you could see if it's the 02 system?

Bobby Walter III

05-08-2006, 11:14 PM

or you can use a variator with a 1 v zener...maybe i will make one.

Taxx

05-09-2006, 08:20 AM

hmm.

hmm.

hmm.

hmm.

I think I am just screwed :loser: :lmao:

haven't checked compression. Should probably do that. Gap "should" be right in the plugs but you never know.

On the fuel gauge. Like I said its 40 at idle and 35 running. Idle is adjusted to about 1k rpm to keep it running right now. At that point vacuum is around 15.

Just cause the fuel pressure is there does not mean the volume is there. I need to find the specs on that low pressure pump. If it is a generic carb pump it very well may not have the required volume and "could" restrict the flow. The E2000 should be a fine high pressure pump from what I have read. However, it can't suck from the tank with where I have it so it needs a feeder. I want to put an accumulator in the mix anyways, but that won't help my issues if the high pressure pump is not getting the flow.

Last night and tonight I am working I am working on a fabrication project for the wife/house. Hopefully I can get it done tongiht so tomorrow noght I can check some of these simple things out.

I think I know something else Bobby has been hinting at to me and thats the timing gears. I am possitive I set them right, but I was possitive on other stuff to so it may be worth a check.

Taxx

05-09-2006, 08:23 AM

And it has Orange injectors. Confirmed them with the guy they came from that they and the MAF are for 19lbs.

Bobby Walter III

05-09-2006, 09:13 AM

what do the plugs look like?

one intank pump is all you need. or just that big one back by the tank, it will pull no problem, it dont need no help.

900-1000 is where i have had to run the idle on a e cam and stock heads to get off idle smooth...and no burble from cruise to stop...

Bobby Walter III

05-09-2006, 09:15 AM

15 is good vacuum. but i have seen 16-17fluxin most of the time with new engines. is the vac real real steady or bobblin slightly.

Taxx

05-09-2006, 09:29 AM

Last time I pulled the plugs they still looked new. There is a bobble on the vacuum.

jason_paul

05-09-2006, 10:14 AM

Wow..... last month your progress had me all ready to convert my 82 f250 to FI, but now Im thinking just keep it carbed......... :dunno:

Taxx

05-09-2006, 10:30 AM

Wow..... last month your progress had me all ready to convert my 82 f250 to FI, but now Im thinking just keep it carbed......... :dunno:

This is just my luck. Others have better success. You know more about engines than I do. And you can learn from ALL my FAWK UPS!

jason_paul

05-09-2006, 11:07 AM

This is just my luck. Others have better success. You know more about engines than I do. And you can learn from ALL my FAWK UPS!

Yeah, maybe...... Need to get this thing running so it can drag my B2 to Chubfest. Pulled the engine out last night to start figuring out what is causing the knock.

So it will probably be just carbed for Chubfest, and then figure something out after that.

Mustang

05-09-2006, 04:10 PM

Its going to be some stupid little thing overlooked in assembly,Have you done a compression test(all 8)yet? The E303 is actually a pretty mild cam(by 5.0 standards)and shouldn't bounce the vacuum around much.Check fuel pressure with it in gear,tires blocked and brakes on(hard),get some load on the motor and get some revs(not enough to go thru the other side of garage but you get the idea) into it,if pressure drops under 35 or so you have a restriction somewhere,as load increases vacuum decreases and fuel pressure should stay at or near its max(39psi).I was thinking cam timing as well but didn't want to say it,You did set the base timing to 10BTDC with the SPOUT connector unplugged right?The headers you are using are sealed up tight at the head and not letting reversion suck air into the exhaust?What valve springs are you using?(thinking wrong springs and getting coil bind or even a valve getting hung,hence the compression test)I've seen people buy springs for their 65 falcon that is actually using a late model roller cam block with a .480 lift cam and the original springs were only good for around .400 before binding.

Bobby Walter III

05-09-2006, 05:57 PM

What valve springs are you using?(thinking wrong springs and getting coil bind or even a valve getting hung,hence the compression test)I've seen people buy springs for their 65 falcon that is actually using a late model roller cam block with a .480 lift cam and the original springs were only good for around .400 before binding.

thats one of the reasons i say it will still pop and run strange with a carb, that and uneven cyl pressure. a lil valve event mis match and you would never figure it out with a carb. but i was leaning toward wrong pushrods.

the fuel pressure and volume irregularities are tough, but i think it may actually be airing up, and was gonna have him check for bubbles. i know mine runs fine other then being a lil low on power @ 30 psi wot. and 28-33 all around. below 28 it pops and gets rough.

Mustang

05-09-2006, 07:11 PM

but i was leaning toward wrong pushrods.

Yes they are diffrent,It gets confusing when ordering parts for a 74 bronco with a 90 mustang motor/EFI controls.All it takes is one little thing...

Mustang

05-09-2006, 08:44 PM

Almost forgot about your post about your leaky 2-piece headers,did you fix that?An exhaust leak can actually suck outside air into the exhaust stream and make the O2 think it is running lean.

Taxx

05-09-2006, 10:01 PM

Leak is only on pass side. Not both. Both are throwing codes.

As for springs I have no idea. I had the machine shop swap them and I got the cam from the same machine shop at the same time. These guys come highly recomended too.

Pushrods are not the same as my stock pushrods. I got pushrods for a 90 stang or whatever. They matched the length of the pushrods I took out of this roller block...

I am sure it is stupid. This is where I get lost. I understand this shit and how it works but remember this is the first engine I have ever built and have no one around to help me with this stupid little shit.

EFI scares my friends that know engines.

Taxx

05-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Yes they are diffrent,It gets confusing when ordering parts for a 74 bronco with a 90 mustang motor/EFI controls.All it takes is one little thing...

yeah I drive the parts store people nuts. "Whats this going in?" "A 73 bronco but I need one from a....."

Really confuses those retards!:nutz:

gremlinstien

05-09-2006, 10:41 PM

Really confuses those retards!:nutz:

try telling them you need 5.0 efi parts for your 75 Gremlin! :wtf:

Bobby Walter III

05-09-2006, 10:41 PM

well i figured you reused the pushrods, but they set the heads up different.

NOT YOUR FAULT type of thing. just an oversite. but if they are good, then they set it back to stock, and thats...well. stock. unless you got someone elses shit..

Taxx

05-10-2006, 09:30 AM

No these are the questions that need to be asked. I made sure to get new springs and even asked the machine shops input. New cam = new springs. Pushrods are shorter than my stock ones and the same size as what was in there so unless it was wrong before.

There are lots of things to check. I just haven't had a chance to do it yet this week. I gotta clean up the mess I made in the garage last night tonight so there is room to get back to the bronco again.

Taxx

05-11-2006, 07:24 PM

OK well I just reworked the fuel system and I seem to be getting better flow. Much less popping and crap but not all the way there yet. Still pulling the 41 and 91 codes (lean). Time to try some more stuff.

The fuel system I am running is similar to this:

http://fordfuelinjection.com/Inject_your_horse3.pdf

I have the same low pressure pump, but I have an E2000 high pressure pump. That low pressure pump pushes some fuel. Between the two is not that large aperatus but a mustang fuel filter. Like I said the poping is much better but its still lean and still crackles a little....

Its a step though I guess :dunno:

gremlinstien

05-11-2006, 07:45 PM

mustang fuel filter between the pumps? :dunno:

Is that a high pressure type filter? Maybe try moving it to the high pressure side of the second pump. Kinda a long shot,,but ya never know :dunno:

Taxx

05-11-2006, 07:49 PM

mustang fuel filter between the pumps? :dunno:

Is that a high pressure type filter? Maybe try moving it to the high pressure side of the second pump. Kinda a long shot,,but ya never know :dunno:

I just moved it from that side. But I also just put the high volume low pressure pump so maybe it needs to go back? I dunno. Maybe my chiltons manual will show the order of shit.

jason_paul

05-11-2006, 08:04 PM

mustang fuel filter between the pumps? :dunno:

Is that a high pressure type filter? Maybe try moving it to the high pressure side of the second pump. Kinda a long shot,,but ya never know :dunno:

If its a Fuelie mustang filter, then yes it is used to seeing high pressure and flow.

Taxx

05-11-2006, 08:24 PM

If its a Fuelie mustang filter, then yes it is used to seeing high pressure and flow.

Yeah looks like stangs just have the pump in the tank and thats the only pump. Then the filter is under the floor boards.....

Not sure it will make a difference but I will put it back (atleast my brackets can go back in the right place ;):ladys:

Keep this between us, Jason, don't need everyone knowing I am a dumbass....:nutz: :redneck:

Les M

05-11-2006, 09:01 PM

I doubt it will make a difference cause I put mine in before the high PSI pump to act as a fuel reserve for the HP pump.It used to be ahead of it with the 2.9.What does that code really mean?91 and 41?Go to page 228 of probst, is it running rich and has reached the limit which it can (the comp) lean it out or Vise versa?The codes and the trouble shooting chart confuse me.
41Circuit indicates system lean (Right)
91circuit indicates system lean (left)

Either way I would just run it for a while to break it in for a few minutes at a time 10 or 15 to bring it up to temp or so and shut it off.Give it a chance to live a little.

Redriverranger

05-11-2006, 09:05 PM

You did check the BAP, right?

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:07 PM

Les, thats why I hooked an external mixture gauge to it. The O2 sensors are telling the puter that it is it is lean. Why its not richening the mixture I don't know.

Maybe my timing is off and thats making it do stupid stuff? Maybe this maybe that. Getting too tired to think much more tonight.

Same reason I moved that filter back after I saw how much fuel it held in it.

Maybe there is a restriction somewhere else. All ic an tell with the pressure gauge is that my pump is working somewhat and the regulator is holding it where it should.

Thats my understanding on the O2 codes. I don't think it is telling it to lean out but telling it the current status.

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:09 PM

You did check the BAP, right?

yeah but I will check again. Thats the only one I think that I only checked once.:dunno:

Will check here in a few.

gremlinstien

05-11-2006, 09:11 PM

Am I the only one who finds it PAINFULLY funny that the "webmaster" would have such problems with a computer system? :loser:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:11 PM

here is a pic I found on the internet. May be a stupid question cause I do not see how it could make one bit of diff. It shows the PCV hooked to a specific place on the upper intake for vacuum. I hooked it elsewhere and hooked my brake booster to that one.

That won't make one damn bit of difference would it?

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:12 PM

Am I the only one who finds it PAINFULLY funny that the "webmaster" would have such problems with a computer system? :loser:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Thats why I think there has to be more too it. :nutz:

gremlinstien

05-11-2006, 09:16 PM

If it's not in the efi stuff,,my bet is you have the timing chain off a tooth.

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:19 PM

If it's not in the efi stuff,,my bet is you have the timing chain off a tooth.

I think for as easy as that is to get to (well relatively) I maybe should check. I can't see how that happened but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.

Les M

05-11-2006, 09:27 PM

If it's not in the efi stuff,,my bet is you have the timing chain off a tooth.

Then why do the make 3 key ways on the high performance timing chains .You can run them fore or aft of TDC by 33% right.Hell leave it alone you'll get good MPG!!!!

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:28 PM

Then why do the make 3 key ways on the high performance timing chains .You can run them fore or aft of TDC by 33% right.Hell leave it alone you'll get good MPG!!!!

Just have to adjust the idle screw to keep it running. Might have some issues with it overheating running so lean...:idiot:

Les M

05-11-2006, 09:40 PM

You messed with the idle screw???I never touched mine didn't you read probst on setting idle screw??? You Fuched now:shotgun:

Taxx

05-11-2006, 09:43 PM

You messed with the idle screw???I never touched mine didn't you read probst on setting idle screw??? You Fuched now:shotgun:

I had to adjust it in to keep the bitch running so I could run the KOER test. Getting ready to pull the timing cover if I can work up the energy here in a few minutes.

Mustang

05-11-2006, 10:01 PM

You don't have a vacuum line hooked to the BAP do you?The vacuum line is only used in speed density applications.Did you do a compression test yet?

Razor Ranger

05-11-2006, 10:01 PM

Ok....so i just checked back to the first post....Once you put the HEGO ground on....you got a 66-MAF sensor input is less than Self Test Minimum.....Which indicates a Bad MAF....when you unhook the ground for the HEGO you get 41 and 91...Both Banks Lean....Which could also be a bad MAF...I didnt wanna go back through 7 pages to see if you had switched the MAF with another one? Have you tried running it with the MAF unhooked? That would throw the computer into Gimp mode but if it runs somewhat better, the MAF might very well be your problem.

Mark

jason_paul

05-11-2006, 10:03 PM

Are you running the stang MAF and Injectors? Those not being matched could cause it to run lean.

jason_paul

05-11-2006, 10:04 PM

You don't have a vacuum line hooked to the BAP do you?The vacuum line is only used in speed density applications.Did you do a compression test yet?

Thats another good point......

Taxx

05-11-2006, 10:16 PM

OK Maf and injectors are from same car. Will try and track one down to try as this one runs the same connected or not, but it tests out fine according to all the tests so that makes no sense to me.

No vacuum to the bap.

Razor Ranger

05-11-2006, 10:19 PM

Will try and track one down to try as this one runs the same connected or not

There is no change in the way it runs with the MAF connected or disconnected at all?

Taxx

05-11-2006, 10:22 PM

not that I can tell

Razor Ranger

05-11-2006, 10:28 PM

The MAF is wired in correctly right?

Pin 50- MAF- DB/O
Pin 9 - MAF Sig Return- T/LB
Pin 37- VPWR -R (probably spliced in somewhere or wired direct to battery + would work also)
Pin 40-PWR GND-BK/W (spliced or wired directly to battery -)

Taxx

05-11-2006, 10:30 PM

yes.

Taxx

05-11-2006, 11:10 PM

first thing in the AM I am gonna verify my timing. Well finish verifying. Then I will go from there again I guess. But atleast I will know that with 100% certainty.

Les M

05-12-2006, 06:28 AM

Go to local used car lot and test drive a 93 mustang 5.0 HO right to your house and just start switching over sensors till you find the problem.

Taxx

05-12-2006, 09:41 AM

Go to local used car lot and test drive a 93 mustang 5.0 HO right to your house and just start switching over sensors till you find the problem.

I wish I had the cash to waste and I would have taken that 91 I got the A9P from. Damn thing ran great.

Got a couple things to try before I go to the extreme of test driving one to my house. But I am not that far off.:lmao:

I know in the end its gonna be something stupid that I overlooked.

Bob Myers

05-12-2006, 11:09 AM

Taxx

05-12-2006, 12:24 PM

Just hire Bobby to come and HELP you straighten it out. When it is running to your satisfaction then tell us how much it is and we'll take up a collection so you don't have to borrow from your wife. If these guys don't want to pitch in then i'm sure we can get him paid any way.

:lmao: :lmao:

I learned why so many say get the whole working car.:knob:

However I wanted to do it from scratch to learn as much as possible and I think that goal is getting accomplished.

in2fords

05-12-2006, 04:51 PM

:lmao: :lmao:

I learned why so many say get the whole working car.:knob:

However I wanted to do it from scratch to learn as much as possible and I think that goal is getting accomplished.

Hell, YOU are doing it from scratch and I'M learning as much as possible, atleast this is an good tech thread for future reference.

Taxx

05-12-2006, 05:06 PM

Hell, YOU are doing it from scratch and I'M learning as much as possible, atleast this is an good tech thread for future reference.

This is an AWESOME what not to do thread.

Got the timing chain fixed ran it for a bit. Got the 66 code still so I am clearing the mem to make sure its not an old code and will check again in a bit.

Taxx

05-12-2006, 05:23 PM

Welp I just took it for a 1 mile trip or so after it warmed up. Came back read the codes.

Only code I am reading from "C" is 96. Why I don't know but I don't really care.

Here are the issues I noticed driving it:

1) Idle is funky. Died at a couple stop signs for me. (reading from others the ECM needs to learn the idle???)

2) I am running my tach through the MSD 6A. It runs great to 3500 RPM, then the tach does WEIRD things. Starts fluttering and going down??? But the engine seems to be running stronger and and at a faster RPM so must be an issue with the MSD or the Tach?

3) Gets sideways pulling out in traffic on slightly wet roads VERY easily :bobby:

Gonna do a KOER test now. What do you guys think about 1 and 2?

Mustang

05-12-2006, 05:33 PM

1.) unplug the IAC,start motor(keep it going by hand or it should stall),set idle in gear to 700-900 depending on your needs,plug IAC back in.Idle should go up until ECM backs it off after cold start mode.If you plug it back in and nothing happens the IAC is stuck/dirty/bad.

2.)Make sure the tack is wired correctly,usually the MSD's require a tach adapter depending on application.There is also the possibility that it is manifesting the "might suddenly die" symptom that seems to be so common,Hence the name "MSD".

Mustang

05-12-2006, 05:35 PM

One other thing,Not psitively sound tech advice but if you rotate the MAF clockwise/counter-clockwise it usually will smooth things out as the air hits it at a diffrent angle.Anything over idle and it doesn't really matter.

Taxx

05-12-2006, 05:53 PM

OK. Will do that. I can bypass the MSD if it does die and will double check the tach instructions and MSD/tach stuff.

KOER codes:
12 - cannot control rpm during ER self-test high rpm check
13 - cannot control rpm during ER self-test low rpm check

Taxx

05-12-2006, 06:12 PM

aight I think I have the idle about right. Its real loby but that might be the cam.

gonna run the koer again

Taxx

05-12-2006, 06:32 PM

UG

KOER
12,13
19 - RPM erratic, dropped too low during test

Continuous Memory has code:
66

Idle is still really eratic.

Taxx

05-12-2006, 07:06 PM

Forgot to mention that with or without the MSD hooked up it starts to spit and sputter and crap at 4k rpm.

in2fords

05-12-2006, 07:33 PM

is there anything in the dist that could be giving you problems? TFI or something? is it a miss? could you have a spark plug wire with a broken core? could you try a different set of wires? plugs are the right heat range? at this point it's throw parts at it untill something gives without anyone being able to see/hear it, not that I could have been much help even if it ws in my living room. Im setting up the 302 harness for the SJ410, but had the entire car and keeping it all the same, just shortening/adding to the over all length. I was going to eliminate a bunch of stuff but now think Ill wait.

Mustang

05-12-2006, 07:34 PM

OK 12,13,19 look to all be idle speed related,does the RPM jump when you plug the IAC back in?The 66 says the MAF sensor dropped below the limit of 4 volts during the last 20 or so starts.When running does it kill the motor if you unplug the MAF sensor?It should.

Taxx

05-12-2006, 09:37 PM

I'll play with the IAB and MAF in the am and try setting the idle again first.

plugs, wires, tfi.... its all possibilities. Don't mind throwing parts at it, don't like throwing money at it.

Bobby Walter III

05-13-2006, 04:58 AM

sorry...been away. couldnt access site either at will.

Taxx

05-18-2006, 08:12 PM

Welp here is todays update. I disconnected the IAB and set the idle to around 700-800 and then reset the TPS to .98-.99. Hooked it back up and it sounds a bit lopy and not real happy in gear stopped when I drove it but she stayed alive.

Seemed to be running. Did not check codes today will in the am. But when it is not in gear if I rev it to around 4 grand it starts to backfire. Not sure why or what that means? I drove it without the MSD so my tach was disconnected so I am not sure if I hit 4k driving it but the only issues driving it seemed to be in the tranny.

Gonna hook the VSS back up and drive it some more and see what happens. It deffinately has MUCH MORE power than that squirrel cage I pulled out of there. I will be happier when it idles better at stop signs if it does and when the tranny works right.

I will hook my tach up a different way so I get a better idea about how it is running down the road. Well that and my speedo is not hooked up right now either.:dunno:

I will post up after I check the codes and such, seems like it could still use some fine tuning but as far as my expert oppinion goes I think its driveable.

Bobby Walter III

05-19-2006, 12:14 AM

seems like a fuel issue at the 4 k....will it rev nice in first to 5500?

and i have to run them e/b type cams @900-1000 rpm:alx: ...i know everyone says they are not a performance cam but they sure as fawk spin these efi engines alot better....waaaaaay better then the truck cams.

i dont have a way to chip it for that. but theres other ways.

Taxx

05-19-2006, 08:28 AM

I need to hook my tach up right so I can tell how it feels in gear at the higher RPMs. I ran it down the road and it seemed like it was a bout 4k but without a tach I can't know for sure. I will get that rewired. Right now the tach is hooked to the MSD and the MSD is disconnected.

I didn't want to screw that screw in too much more to raise the idle but I guess I will try it around 950 or so.

Taxx

05-25-2006, 10:41 PM

Played with idle some more tonight. KOER test gives me 12,41,91 now. No idea why it has gone back to running lean again :dunno:, but it burnt the hell out of my eyes so I am sure it was lean again.

It does die when the MAF is unplugged. Its gotta be something stupid and simple or something I did wrong building the engine.:dunno:

I have a question and I am not sure what if anything this will affect. The tube at the throttle body that goes to the filter box to allow in unmetered air, how much "vacuum" will this have on it? Can it be capped off? Hooked to the breather connection on the oil fill tube?

Taxx

05-26-2006, 02:14 PM

Hooked the tack up. Ran it to 4k in 1 and it spits and sputters and gets pissed off between 3 and 4 k. Running around 210 degrees still have my whistle but I think its the tranny but it doesn't stop AS SOON as you stop the engine it takes a sec to dwindle down. I dunno. I am at a loss at this point. I shoulda bought a crate motor to eliminate that but I wanted to learn and learn I have! :lmao:

Matt Maier

05-26-2006, 10:59 PM

tax tax tax, i don't know what to tell you but i had a little trouble today with my motor. I have a race tomorrow and of coarse the motor wanted to studder of when i nailed it from an idle. i took the CARB apart and cleaned it up, that helped some but did not solve the problem, so, i went to Delaware (45min away) and bought some racing fuel (112) brought it home dumped it in the tank and wouldn't you know it, runs fine now, with some kick ass throttle response. Stupid fuel injection, its:gay: :hehe:

Taxx

05-27-2006, 06:33 AM

Well I wonder if its realy an injection problem or an engine build problem or a retarded mechanic problem.

Good luck in your race.

Bobby Walter III

05-27-2006, 02:40 PM

Taxx

05-27-2006, 07:21 PM

:idiot:

Laugh it up!

Seems the main problem was that of a retarded mechanic!

Sucks that I had to leave I would have liked to take it for a longer spin or go find somewhere to beat on it.

Big THANKS to Bobby for figuring out my issues!:eek2: Damn thing runs real nice now!:cool:

Thanks again Bobby!

Bobby Walter III

05-27-2006, 07:43 PM

i want you to read my first responses to this on page 1....

FOUNDING 2006

Location:
in the middle of the detroit river...literally
My Creedo:
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS... MUST ADAPT
My Rig:
...easier to fix and understand, than her.

sounds like the egr is a factor with the o2 change, though the o2 i am guessing is reading now?

the hissing sounds like a vac leak or a problem with the pvc, possibly the check valve on the brake booster is bleeding off vacuum when you shut the engine off as well.

if the wiring is fine, and the pins are where they are supposed to be at the computer connector(you know people swap them around dave) then the problem is in the pcm, you have eliminated the wiring. you know how to check the sensors, a giant vac leak should show with the starting fluid.

did you pull the intake and make sure a wire or something inst pinched in there?
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I LOVE FAT CHICKS

disconnect the vac line and plug it for the egr valve.

stART it up and then stroke the key on and off without it stalling, rev it if you have too.

it damn sure sounds like a short in the harness could be a contributing factor, or back feeding to the nds.

i cant do anything on the weekends, i have too many sporting things with the kids. if i get some money out of one of these billings i am thinkin of just commin over. i have to fix my moms new husbands car, it had a wireing fire...and its a saturn, dealer said low to fix is 1500. when that is done i might test drive it to indy
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I LOVE FAT CHICKS

hey, were the heads magnefluxed?

what did you do with the heads?
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I LOVE FAT CHICKS

do you have a setup for an automatic or manual trans for the o2 sensor harness?

is the nds grounded or has crank power running to it?

if it is grounded, is it only grounded during crank?
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I LOVE FAT CHICKS

do you have another pcm? i can send you one if you need it.
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I LOVE FAT CHICKS

and the:idiot: wasnt at you dave.....it was matt.

if matt trys real hard he will remember me predicting his engine doing that a few winters ago when it got some miles on it...:hehe: ,---for matt..

Bobby Walter III

05-27-2006, 07:45 PM

i would also like to add, you did indeed correctly eliminate the wiring, and your workmanship is top fawking notch buddy:cool:

Bobby Walter III

05-27-2006, 07:46 PM

i am jealous of that rig..!!!!

Taxx

05-27-2006, 07:58 PM

i am jealous of that rig..!!!!

I know you where laughing at Matt. Just expect some flak for this.

If you wouldn't have gotten it running you might have been able to work hell of a deal on it. But now that it runs.....:hehe:

Maybe that thing I thought was the pump whistling was really the PCV since it didn't do it and you plugged it.... Seemed for sure it was louder under the engine...

Oh well. Can't wait to get home and drive the piss out of it. Well point it in the general direction I want to drive and let it decide the exact path:lmao: