Well Sh!t. I broke the EB! Help me please.

[Taxx]

:thwack: Well I am sure some of you were expecting this thread after my repairs and upgrades thread. Tonight I finished up the ignition. MSD 6A and duraspark distro. She will crank and not fire, that damn optima will crank for 30 minutes I swear! However I checked the MSD via their troubleshooting guide and it is working. Also pulled a plug and grounded it while cranking and I am getting a spark. I tried my best to put the new distro in in the same configuration as the one I took out so the timing would be close. What do I do now? Crank and no fire! Opened the choke and sprayed some starter fluid and nothing. She spits at me once ever 5 - 10 cranks. Any ideas? Is my timing f***ed? What should I try to get her to fire again tomorrow (gotta recharge my battery). :mad:

she is getting fuel. When I pulled the plug to see a spark it was wet with gas. :nutz:

[Razor Ranger]

She spits at me once ever 5 - 10 cranks. Any ideas? Is my timing f***ed? What should I try to get her to fire again tomorrow (gotta recharge my battery. :mad:

Yes...your timing is Effed...Buy or borrow a timing light and you should be good to go!

Mark


or if ya don't wanna do that try turning the distributor and see where it will start....once started...turn the distributor till it seems to run the smoothest....Then get a timing light and time it properly :beer:

[Taxx]

I'll do that. I tried turning it but maybe too much? I imaging it just takes tiny turns?

I can't seem to find the timing markings either. Are they on the main pully?

[Razor Ranger]

The Markings should be on the Crank pulley and there should be a pointer somewhere located around the crank pulley as well

[Bobby Walter III]

you need to live closer.

[Taxx]

you need to live closer.

I need to leave things alone, but that will never happen..... lol I'll try to find it. I thought there would be markings too and I can't see anything so I iwll look harder.

[ummduh]

you need to live closer.


In either direction! This woulda been done in about 25 minutes..

[ummduh]

I need to leave things alone, but that will never happen..... lol I'll try to find it. I thought there would be markings too and I can't see anything so I iwll look harder.


they'll be faint.. Rub the crud off with your finger and take a piece of chalk.. grind the chalk into all the writing so you can see it.


BTW, another MUCH easier way to test if the MSD is firing is to tap the white wire to ground with the coil wire detached and grounded. every time you break the ground connection with the white wire it should fire.

You can use the white wire with a switch to ground as an ignition defeat feature too for anti-theft...

[Taxx]

I found the pointer and the only markins I found on the pully look like this. The long thing is a side of the pully and the triangle is the pointer.

[Taxx]

Been talking to a budy. He suggests its out 180 otherwise it should fire.

I will try and find the marker on the pully and see what it tells me. Maybe I will switch the wires 180 and try it, if that works then get that bitch out and turn it 180?

[Les M]

You really need to find that tining mark if you can,t call me or somthing I can't type as fast as you tear :v: JK

[ummduh]

just a heads-up, the timing marks are on the harmonic balancer, not on the pulley.. they're there, you just gotta squint and clean them up somehow.

[Bob Myers]

I need to leave things alone, but that will never happen..... lol I'll try to find it. I thought there would be markings too and I can't see anything so I iwll look harder.

The true definition of experiance is; The ability to recognize your mistakes as you make them again.
Without trial and error you'll never learn anything.
Pull number1 spark plug, bump engine over until #1 is coming up on compression,continue to bring #1 up until the timing marks are aligned(on the harmonic balancer) for TDC(top dead center), at this point pull distributor cap and check to see if rotor button is pointing at #1 sparkplug wire. If it aint turn or reposition distributor until it is. Go through the firing order again making sure you put plug wires back in proper order, also noting if they are in the proper rotation direction.

[Taxx]

I will give this stuff a try. I meant balancer just don't know all that fancy jargon. I am a computer nerd. This is how I learned axle and suspension stuff too. Should be easy but never works out like the instructions then I get to trouble shoot. I'll get it working now then worry about understanding why it didn't work the right way the first time later. :mad: The balancer is the thing with the pully on one side and the balancer has a couple hoes in it to balance correct?

As for the dist. the new one is in there good and does not pull out. The teeth are messhed tightly. Whats a trick to get it out without breaking anything? There is no good spot to tap it from the bottom with a mallet.

I'll hit the balancer with some brake cleaner and a brush and see if I can't find that stuff. WOuld I be better to pull the plugs and crank the engine with the balancer than with a key since I only have two hands? and see when 1 is compressing? Then I would ahve a good idea where to look for the marks and where the dist is?

I am looking at the right things aren't I? It has to be timing if it is getting a spark and fuel?

I'll pick up a timing light on the way home since dad got rid of his years ago and will probaly be handy to have one around later.

I don't think I made a mistake. Only in the sense that this looked easier than it is for a newbie. But next time I will have it down after all this :cool: . Like you said, trial and error. If it went easy I never would have understood this stuff! I just need a port to plug my code scanner into :shake:

Atleast I knew enough to rule out the ignition module and coil. :nuts: But the battery finally gave out (gotta hand it to optima) and I didn't think my wife would like the diesel running at midnight (or the dog for that matter). Just glad I have another vehicle to drive for now :anal:
Anyone that wants to come down and help fix it I'll let you stay and make you dinner :lmao:

[ummduh]

if you would like to make your life just a tab easier, go to a parts store and buy a remote crank trigger thingy.. it hooks onto the starter solenoid and you can hold on to it and bump the engine over yourself while in the engine bay or underneath.. they're like $20. it'll come in majorly handy the more you get into this EB.

[Taxx]

if you would like to make your life just a tab easier, go to a parts store and buy a remote crank trigger thingy.. it hooks onto the starter solenoid and you can hold on to it and bump the engine over yourself while in the engine bay or underneath.. they're like $20. it'll come in majorly handy the more you get into this EB.

I can just make one free with spare wires and a switch or a bare wire to touch. I know its powerfull I can handle the elctricity, its the mechanics I can't handle... :thwack:

[ummduh]

I can just make one free with spare wires and a switch or a bare wire to touch. I know its powerfull I can handle the elctricity, its the mechanics I can't handle... :thwack:


you can do that too.. just remember not to jump both terminals (the battery and the starter) together if you run a wire/switch, run it from the battery to the solenoid trigger terminal.

[Taxx]

OK with my limited knowledge (had to come home for lunch) here is where it is. She fires and the timing is close (found the numbers) it is on 10 with it like it is in this pic:

http://www.haughs.net/gallery/albums/bronco-engine/close.jpg

counter clockwise advances it more. it needs to go more clockwise, but the water pump is in the way. And I can't get it out. Tried cranking it a couple times to move it then pull on it again no go. I tapped it with a rubber malet nothing. Put a pry bar under it and just flexed the bar. Need some ideas to get it out and working correctly. Maybe I am backwards on the advance/deadvance thinking but the farther it is to the clockwise direction the better it fires and wants to run.

[Taxx]

she is out! I have to think which way to put her back in. I will get her back at TDC fist. But this came with it:

can I just slide it back in or do I need to check some shit first?

[Taxx]

that rod is stuck in there but looks square. Will it matter if I leave it? I don't want it to be toast later down the road. But it looks square. It has to be off though to be crammed like that. I would rather replace than risk a mess up down the road... what do you think?

[Bob Myers]

Thats the oil pump drive shaft, if its not rounded on the edges of the hex, or appear to be rounded up in the bottom of the distributor then leave it alone and reinstall it as it came out- one piece. From the earlier pic of the vacuum can up against the water pump , and you saying it was close, I would have pulled the plug wires off one at a time and rotated their respective homes on the cap instead of pulling dist. Now when you do go back in there is a high probability that it will not go all the way down into its bore at first. Don't get excited. Bump the starter as you push down on the dist(careful of that schit that rotates-it'll bite you) and it will then seat all the way down.
Good luck, and as my hero Red Greene says: "Hang in there men we're all in this thing together".

[ummduh]

stick it back in.. You don't want to try and put the shaft back in serperatly.. I usually end up dropping the oil pan. REALLY watch the oil pressure now, as there is a little clip that is supposed to be on there to hold the shaft in the block.. If there was one, it's floating in your oil pan now.

Anyways, heres a pic showing advance/retard

http://www.trucksandbabypics.net/rangerbuild/close.jpg

grab the vac advance nipple and turn the direction of the arrow

[Taxx]

lol I thought you called me a retard! :thwack:

it needs to be a few more degrees advanced then. gonna go work on it now. talked with les a bit earlier. Very informative and very helpfull. I'll let you know how she works out! I am getting little a little boy on xmas to have ti running again!


Woo hoo and more packages came today,....

[Taxx]

:lmao: :hehe: :nuts: :lovebacon :beer: :lmao:

She is back from the dead! BIG thanks to all those that gave usefull advice (anything besides "you should live closer" :fin: ). It comes in and out easy now, but takes the shaft with it. Good oil presure, great sound and no smoke. Had to fiddle with it a couple times to get it just where I need it. Ended up being at about 15 degrees of advance (glad I picked up a light with an advance knob). Could have prolly done without the light, but now I have a reference point. Turned it back and forth till I liked how she ran. Seems to be running strong, but haven't gotten out of the garage yet, too much crap in my way and I am tired. But I can tell a difference with the MSD just in park, can't wait to drive her tomorrow.

Got teh rest of my parts today for the bushings, shocks and 2" lift springs so now all that is left is to get the disc brakes and the front comes off and the brakes get ripped out all the way to the rear drums. But the next couple weeks I am busy so they will have to sit and look pretty while I make sure she is running top notch.

And the most important thing is I learned a crap load about timing and the workings of this engine, granted still a lot to learn but a hell of a start!

less I told you on the phone it was at 10. i was wrong. It does have markings both ways, it was at T0.

[ummduh]

Good to hear. Did you regap your spark plugs yet? With the MSD you can open them up to .055 or so for an even better running engine.

[Taxx]

No started at 0.35 (stock spec) just to see, will try opening them a bit at a time in the future and see what hapens. It is nice!

Les - my light didn't give me three blast like you said it would with the MSD. Oh well its running!

Things I learned:

- Oil shaft shouldn't come out :nuts:
- How timing works sort of
- How to troubleshoot timing (a decent start)
- How to trouble shoot the ignition system
- How to install and remove a distr. several times
- How EASY the plugs are on this compaired to anything I have had except the PSD
- How long a blue top will crank before it dies (damn near forever!)
- And last but most important, turn key off and distconnect battery before grabbing the distr with the cover off! Damn good thing it was a short jolt, I couldn't have let go. Thats dangerous trying to cut corners like that and knocks you on the ground. I have been shocked by household outlets but not that kind of current! :nutz: :loser:

[Bobby Walter III]

good.


cause i wasnt typing shit for this and the 8 other complicated issues i am working with via e mail and pm's on 4 different boards...



but its rather simple.

360 degrees in a circle


when in doubt find tdc physically, then mark the top of the balancer. from there mark the balancer 90 degrees both way then 45 the 22.5 then...you should get it by now taxxboy...you can eyeball this bitch from here no problem. unless you dont know how to lash the distributor...some guys always end up a tooth off. :thwack:


you should see how easy it is to swap my plugs.

[Taxx]

She runs down the road good! No noticeable power increases but it runs smoother.

But my luck kicked back in. Now I have a noisy lifter (thats my expert oppinion) tap tap tap tap, sounds like under pass side valve cover. Maybe it got some crap in it when I cleaned the intake gasket off. I tried to be carefull and get it nice and clean and no debree but must be something that got in there. No way it would just go coincidental like that. Oh well easy fix.

[Les M]

I use an older timming light,just hook one wire to the plug the other to the plug wire,maybe that is why I get 3 lines.Yours is a newer style that also hooks to the battery.Does anyone know if this is why he only got one line :dunno:Used to time my 1940 JD-B with it,it did not have a battery.

[Bobby Walter III]

it was probably strobin 3 les he just too smart to realize it...or burnt from all the raves he used to go too. :DF:

[ummduh]

I never got three off of my newer lights either. Never even thought about it till now.. :dunno:

I suppose they gotta be firing so fast that the timing light can't do anything about it..

[Taxx]

Hell I dunno, all those strobes give me flashbacks! :pimp:

Seriously though it seemed to be only one, They fire quick anyways. But ya mine hooks to the battery and clamps the plug wire.

As for the tapping. I talked to a well trusted mechanic (one of the two in town I trust for an honest answer) and he said I probably got something in there when I changed the intake gasket, that it happens alot and is not a big deal. Said change the oil or run some sea foam (sounds like chubby) or both and let the new detergent work it out. Imagine it will take some time, but I guess something got in a lifter and is blocking the flow a bit??? Seems logical, just want to make sure it won't hurt anything. On the web people are saying the same thing. That it will work free with a new oil change and some sea foam or some ATF. So I will give the oil change a try.

But I have noticed the idle is a bit higher and she turns over better and easier. I like. Just gotta keep it drie! :bobby:

[psychobilly]

counter clockwise advances it more. it needs to go more clockwise, but the water pump is in the way. And I can't get it out.

You shoulda just moved all the wires back one spot and reset the timing.

[Bob Myers]

You shoulda just moved all the wires back one spot and reset the timing.
I read that somewhere else didn't I?





































Oh yea, I remember where, I said it post #21. :shake:

[psychobilly]

yeah, I only read to the point he wanted to pull the thing, didnt realize there was a page 2 till I posted it. My bad :thwack:

[Taxx]

I can't do that. Would bother me waaaaay to much. :knob:

[Dale]

HOLY SHIT BILLY ADMITTED TO BEING WRONG :eek2:

[psychobilly]

Not like I never did it before silly goose. Now if you could do the same we would be in business.